@jd What do all the symbols in your name mean?
@thor
✅ verified account (which it isn't)
Ⓐ Anarchism (I'm not a very good anarchist)
★ Communism/Socialism (not good at that either)
😼 Cat-ism (I am a total adherent)
🌍 Earth (from there)
🇪🇺 European (even if the EU kinda sucks)
🇭🇺 Hungary (where I am from now)
@jd More of a libertarian centrist/moderate than an anarchist leftist, I suspect? That's where I seem to fall on the spectrum myself...
@thor the words libertarian, centrist and moderate make little sense to me, honestly. They mean different thing in different places and cultures and times in history. Essentially they say little, I think.
@jd They do indeed mean different things to different people. By libertarian, I mean leaning in an anarchistic direction without fully embracing every aspect of it. By centrist/moderate, I mean that I see pros and cons to both pure capitalism and pure socialism. No country implements either, so it's not a position that depends on where I am. To Americans, I'm a left winger. To Europeans, I'm a right winger.
@thor In my lifetime I have heard many politicians say 'Third Way' which also basically means nothing – I prefer to watch what people do rather than labels.
@jd You seem to dismiss many things because they mean nothing to you. How do you have a conversation when nothing means anything? I think it's perfectly clear what a third way is. It's the way that's not taken by the left or the right. I have never heard a politician advocate what I define as a third way. Usually, a third way is difficult to implement, because it involves disruptive change to the way society works.
@jd If it doesn't require abandoning an entire set of established truths, it probably isn't a third way.
@thor it seems Mastodon ate my reply - i will try to rewrite soon.
@thor re: 'dismiss many things' – well you asked my opinion, so I explain 😁
In Hungary the 'socialist party' are economically to the 'right' of the 'centre-right' and the fascist party appears to the far left of both of them – with the exception that they would like to put me and my friends into death camps, that is.
From a Hungarian perspective 'third way' doesn't describe anything.
@jd Then your parties are mislabeled, and that's a common problem. The Progress Party of Norway is mostly against progress, for example. They're more accurately described as The Populist Party.
@thor ok the reply did appear! must be a lag.
yes mislabeled, but this is just an expression of how history happens. The history of 'socialism' is very very different from Norway's (of course)
@jd There are classical definitions of left and right that don't depend on how the definitions have been twisted later on. My starting point is usually the emergence of capitalism during the Industrial Revolution and the emergence of communism as a counter-reaction to that.
@jd With that as the starting point, one can begin to put proper labels on things. And as it turns out, very few contemporary political parties fit the labels "left" and "right", because they have become extreme positions.
@jd Rather, there are left-leaning and right-leaning parties, and the center consists of those who attempt to balance these positions as equally as possible.
@thor Yes, I know the history of 'left' and 'right' and I declare myself to be on the left side, in general. But these are just seating arrangements in the French Parliament 200 years ago 😁
All that said 'Liberté égalité fraternité' is still a pretty good motto for me.
@jd Yes, but they were meaningful seating arrangements. 😉 In Norway, our right and center parties are named Right and Left because of such historical seating arrangements. There was nothing left of the Left until the socialists came around. The socialists then became the new left, and the old Left became the center. Confusingly, the old Left kept their name. They did not keep their voters, though.
@thor yes, as I said 😄 'different places and cultures and times in history' – every country has its own version.
@thor by chance, I found this 'map' of Hungarian politics (I do not think it is complete), unfortunately I cannot find a higher quality version. But if you know know Hu politics, this is funny to see because everything is so connected but confusing...
@thor AH! I found the large size version of this map.... very nice....
https://hu-lala.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/carte-partispolitiques.png
@jd In other ways, I have opinions that render those labels irrelevant, because I have a third way.